Thanks Sully,

Best wishes,
Bill Rudman

Dear Sully,

This is what I have been calling Noumea? sp 2 although the shape of the mantle suggests it could be a Thorunna. I have mentioned before that I am sure I have seen an illustration of this - perhaps in one of Bergh's reports - but I still have not been able to locate it so perhaps I am just having a slight delusion.

Best wishes,
Bill Rudman

Dear Binyamin,
It is indeed Noumea? sp. 2. As I said in earlier messages, I have a vague feeling I have seen a painting of this in an old book, so I went for a bit of a hunt. I didn't find what I think I was looking for but I did find the painting alongside in a paper by Pruvot-Fol (1933: Plate 1, fig 9) on animals from the Red Sea collected by Robert Dollfus [after who the spectacular Hypselodoris dollfusi is named].

It does not solve the identity of Noumea? sp. 2 , but it does illustrate some of the problems we face identifying old names. Pruvot-Fol specifically states that the colours of the animals in her colour plate are the colours of the animals after preservation in formalin. How long they had been in formalin she does not say, but as they were collected in 1928 it could have been anything up to three or four years. So the only similarity I guess between your animals and her painting is the probability that the white spots in her painting have not changed. I cant be altogether confident about that though, because some colours fade quickly in preservative, and all we can say about an opaque white spot like this in a preserved animal is that before preservation it was a pigmented spot - but it could have been purple or red or perhaps yellow. Pruvot-Fol tentatively identified it as Goniobranchus albomaculatus Pease, 1866 [see message #13232] but considered it was different enough to warrant a special name as a 'variety' - Glossodoris albomaculata var erythraea. Unfortunately there is not enough information in her radula description to decide what genus her animal belonged to so I guess the name should be considered what we call a nomen nudum [= nude name] - a name without enough information to make sense of.

I am pretty sure your animal is not Pruvot-Fol's but whether it is or not I think we will need to start again.

• Pruvot-Fol, A., (1933) Mission Robert Ph. Dollfus en Egypte. Opisthobranchiata. Memoires de l'Institut d'Egypte, 21: 89-159, pls. 1-4.

Best wishes,
Bill Rudman

Dear Lindsay,
I am glad you asked for my thoughts, rather than an answer. I was just thinking today that 'publishing' on the Forum is quite diferent from formal publication in print. In formal publishing the author is in complete control. They can choose the species they will discuss and leave out those that are 'unfinished business'. This gives the impression of an efficient scientist with all the answers. One of the values of the Forum is that it shows to the world the our science is largely 'unfinished business' and we still have much to discover.

This animal is a good example. From your earlier specimen it would have been reasonable to assume that red spots around the border was a good character for the species. However Valda's photo, and now yours, suggest that red spots are optional. Obviously only the anatomy can tell us, but I woud suspect that all these are the same species. If you look carefully, there are a pair of red spots at the front of the mantle, and a pair behind the gills. Both these pairs of spots are in the spotted animal in your earlier message. It is certainly possible that Terry's animal is also a colour variant.

As I said to Valda earlier, I have a vague feeling I have seen a painting of this animal in an old publication - but where?

Best wishes,
Bill Rudman.

Dear Valda,
I think this is probably the same - or very similar, to Noumea sp. 2 from Sulawesi. It hasn't got the red spots in the band around the mantle border, but otherwise its very similar. I still have this feeling I have seen a drawing or painting of this animal, but so far I can't remember where.
Best wishes,
Bill Rudman.

Dear Lindsay,
This reminds me of something but I can't quite put my finger on it. It has that almost 'violin'-like shape of some species of Noumea, so it possibly a species of that genus.

If I remember, or come across the description I am thinking of I'll let you know. In the meantime if anyone recognises this please let us know.

Best wishes,
Bill Rudman.